Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:16:38 +0200

From: Jose Angel Sordo <jasg@uniovi.es>

To: 'E. Arunan' <arunan@ipc.iisc.ernet.in>

Subject: RE: Hydrogen bond

 

Dear Arunan,

Thank you for the information about the PISA IUPAC workshop.

Let me just make some short comments on the three points you mention in your note:

1. I fully agree with the definition of hyfrogen bonding. However, it is a little bit inconsistent to answering "a mandate to categorize intermolecular interaction ... based on the physical forces involved" without mentioning any physical force at all!

2. I find appropriate to define London molecules as those formed by interactions arising PRIMARILY from dispersion forces. However, in another part of the document I can read "... arising EXCLUSIVELY due to Loondon dispersive forces". In my opinion, this latter definition is more dangerous and should be avoided.

2. In my opinion, "van der Waals interactions" is a concept with very deep historial roots which are going to be very difficult to change. I think that "weakly bound interactions" should be much better for covering, in a general manner, all kinds of intermolecular interactions.

 

I hope all the above helps.

 

With my best wishes,

José

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Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:53:07 +0530 (IST)

From: E. Arunan <arunan@ipc.iisc.ernet.in>

To: Jose Angel Sordo <jasg@uniovi.es>

Subject: RE: Hydrogen bond

 

Dear José,

Thanks for the response. Surely, they will be helpful.

Let me respond to some of the points

> 1. I fully agree with the definition of hyfrogen bonding. However, it is a little bit inconsistent to answering "a mandate to

> categorize intermolecular interaction ... based on the physical forces involved" without mentioning any physical force at all!

 

If you remember the comment made by Pavel Hobza after (during?) your talk, he pointed out that hydrogen bonding was not one of the physical forces. That is a fact. For the first row hydrides, electrostatics dominate. For second row, role of dispersion could be more important and of course in FHF- covalency is important.

 

> 2. I find appropriate to define London molecules as those formed by > interactions arising PRIMARILY from dispersion

> forces. However, in another part of the document I can read "... arising EXCLUSIVELY due to Loondon dispersive forces".

> In my opinion, this latter definition is more dangerous and should be avoided.

 

Point well taken. I will keep primarily instead of exclusively.

 

> 2. In my opinion, "van der Waals interactions" is a concept with very deep historial roots which are going to be very difficult to

> change. I think that "weakly bound interactions" should be much better for covering, in a general manner, all kinds of  

> intermolecular interactions.

 

Pavel has been advocating non-covalend interactions. In any case, my objective is to state what is van der Walls interactions. Do you think it should be limited to dispersion or should it cover other physical forces as well.

 

cheers,

Arunan.

Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:49:17 +0200

From: JOSE ANGEL SORDO GONZALO <jasg@uniovi.es>

To: E. Arunan <arunan@ipc.iisc.ernet.in>

Subject: Re: RE: Hydrogen bond

 

Dear Arunan,

Let me be a little more specific in point #1.

The point is that there is no a single physical force responsible for hydrydrogen bonding. That was one of the main points in my seminar (as you remark, Pavel agreed with that). However, I showed that the relative contributions from the different forces can help to differenciate the different types of bonding.

I agree that we should find a global name for what we call "weakly bound interactions", "non-covalent interactions" (ionic interactions are non-covalent interactions too!!!)... The problem is that, in my opinion, "van der waals interactions" can be problematic for historical reasons.

Best wishes

 

José

Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:07:22 +0530 (IST)

From: E. Arunan <arunan@ipc.iisc.ernet.in>

To: JOSE ANGEL SORDO GONZALO <jasg@uniovi.es>

Subject: Re: RE: Hydrogen bond

 

Dear José,

Received both your emails.

1) Precisely for this reason (ionic bonding), I don't prefer the non-covalent interactions. Would van-der Waals be acceptable? This term means different things in different fields. Some people like it to infer only dispersion. If you have a copy of my Introduction talk at Pisa, kindly have a look at it. I have given five different characterization from five different sources.

2) Do you want to exclude systems in which dispersion plays a major role from hydrogen bonding, even when

the H atom is 'bonded' and you see spectroscopic shifts and other 'evidences'...?

regards,

Arunan.

 

Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 17:11:26 +0200

From: JOSE ANGEL SORDO GONZALO <jasg@uniovi.es>

To: E. Arunan <arunan@ipc.iisc.ernet.in>

Subject: Re: RE: Hydrogen bond

 

Dear Arunan,

1. As  I mentioned in my previous mail "van der Waals" has a very specific connotation and may be a problem. I suggest "weakly bound sytems/interactions" as this term has been widely used (and accepted) in the literature with no distorsions.

2. I do believe that no weakly bound system should be excluded. I generic designation is desirable. The question is to find an appropriate denomination. Weakly bound systems/interactions is just a pesonal proposal. I am sure there will be also alternative proposals from the very prestigious colleagues attending the Pisa meeting.

Tomorrow, at my office, I will check your introduction (I already did it some time ago but I cannot remember it well)

Jose A. Sordo